>> announcer: starting right now on a special edition of "this week." crisis point. a passenger plane shot down. 298 innocent lives lost. in the heart of the middle east, israel begins it ground assault in gaza. civilians caught in the middle. here at home, warnings of new terror threats. uncertainty across the globe. what's next? who can we trust? how will the u.s. respond? this morning, breaking details, insight, and analysis from our team around the world. and secretary john kerry. plus, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. from the global resources of abc news, a special edition of "this week." crisis point.

here now, chief anchor george stephanopoulos. good morning. we're tracking breaking news overnight from gaza and ukraine. we begin with new outrage over malaysia flight 17. relief workers being forced to hand over e bodies of victims to armed rebels. more blame on russia for the downing of the aircraft. terry moran is there on the scene. good morning, terry. >> reporter: good morning, george. there is confusion and chaos surrounding this scene. the evidence, much of it still unguarded in the fields. and the bodies now being recovered slowly. no one knows where they're going to go. nevertheless, the u.s. and others are beginning to build a case. from u.s. officials this morning, powerful new accusations that a surface-to-air missile from rebel-controlled territory brought down the plane. more evidence they say of a russian connection to the shootdown. the statement from the u.s. embassy in ukraine. it asserts a missile launch was detected from eastern ukraine at the time the plane vanished from radar. russian-backed rebels bragged

about taking down a plane on social media, then deleted their posts. and that russia has been training rebels on air defense systems. they also point to video of a missile launcher crossing the border back into russia 12 hours after the crash, with at least one of its missiles missing. meanwhile, back at the crash site, bodies of nearly 200 mh-17 victims have been removed. emergency workers forced to turn them over to rebels. some put on refrigerated train cars. their destination unknown. when we visited the the site earlier, people had just begun to collect the bodies. not a single professional air crash investigator was present. even though the crash site remains unsecured. and there are no professional air crash investigators on the scene. they've begun collecting the bodies and stacking them like cord wood in the trucks. and there were reports that

drunk rebels intimidated international monitors. they were only given partial access. >> there is a lot of security. we're being watched very carefully. >> reporter: now, three days after the jet was shot out of the sky, still no one knows when the bereaved will be able to bring their loved ones home. >> we have not been able to gain any guarantees from the authorities in the ukraine that there will be safe passage allowed for family members. >> reporter: and so the anguish of the families is deepening. we're hearing their anger is rising, quite understandably. the bottom line here. no investigators will get on this site until there is a cease-fire. neither the ukrainian government nor the rebels in control here have agreed on that yet. george? >> okay, thank, terry. now to the crisis in the middle east. the dramatic escalation of the ground war in gaza. 60 palestinians reported dead. tens of thousands seeking refuge with the u.n. more israeli soldiers reported killed. alex marquardt is in gaza. good morning, alex.

>> reporter: good morning, george. today is the deadliest day yet. and it's still early. the shelling by israeli forces in eastern gaza so bloody that israel and hamas agreed to a two-hour cease-fire to evacuate the dead and wounded. but in under an hour, it was broken. now the fighting continues. the booms of israeli artillery raining down this morning on eastern gaza. tank shells are landing every few seconds. people are streaming out of this neighborhood. you can see the looks of terror on their faces. they don't have anywhere to go. they're getting in any car they can to get out of here. i don't know where i'm going, this woman told me. all we have is this white flag. fleeing on foot with his family, this young man said they left the dead and wounded behind. inside, scenes of carnage. mangled bodies lying in the streets. at least 60 killed. gaza's death toll now over 400. around 100 are children. >> this morning, it is nothing short of a massacre.

a deliberate massacre. war crimes committed daily. now there's a deliberate shelling and bombing and destruction of whole areas. >> reporter: hamas has continued to fire rockets into israel from residential areas. warning sirens going off across the country. people running for shelter. two israeli civilians have been killed so far. many of the rockets intercepted by the iron dome missile shield. palestinian militants have stepped up assaults. a number of israeli soldiers have been killed and wounded. new reports of several this morning. israel says the offensive's main goal is to take out the vast network of hamas tunnels. that militants have used repeatedly in recent days to infiltrate israel. the israeli plan is not to occupy gaza or destroy hamas but to weaken them. and as the civilian death toll grows here, the big question is at what cost?

international pressure is growing on both sides to end this now 13-day conflict. israel and hamas have been talking through intermediaries. but so far, neither side showing any signs of backing down. george? >> thank you, alex. we're joined by the secretary of state, john kerry. mr. secretary, thanks for your time this morning. we just heard in alex marquardt's piece, the palestinians are calling this operation in gaza a massacre and a war crime. what is your response? >> that's rhetoric we have heard many, many times. what they need to do is stop rocketing israel and accept the cease-fire. it's very, very clear that they have tunnelled under israel. they have tried to come out of those tunnels with people, with handcuffs and tranquilizer drugs, to capture israeli citizens and hold them for ransom or worse. they've been rocketing israel with thousands of rockets. they've been offered a cease-fire. they've refused to take it.

even though egypt and others have called for that cease-fire, they've just stubbornly invited further efforts to try to diffuse the ability to be able to rocket israel. so, you know, it's ugly. obviously. war is ugly. and bad things are going to happen. but they need to recognize their own responsibility. we have offered to have a cease-fire and then negotiate the issues. we have obviously shown our bona fide ease in the united states. the president has put his presidency behind the efforts to try to find peace in the region. so they need to join up and be responsible and accept a unilateral -- not a unilateral, a multilateral cease-fire without conditions. and then, we pledge to discuss all the underlying issues, which we have been trying to do for the last year and half. >> you seem to pin the blame most squarely on hamas. is there any dealing with them? or must they be removed from power?

>> that's a -- you know, well, we don't deal with hamas. but there are people in the region who obviously do. israel has to find a way to communicate through egypt or others. in order to, you know, get the private back or other kinds of things historically. there are plenty of people talking to hamas in the region. and they're all telling hamas that they need to try to have a cease-fire. what we need to do is get that cease-fire rapidly. i've been in touch with every foreign minister involved in this discussion. i talked yesterday with secretary general ban ki-moon. president obama talked on friday evening with prime minister netanyahu. i talked with him yesterday. the president will talk to him again today. we're frying to get a cease-fire in place and then be able to move on and get back to the discussions that really are underlying this conflict. but in the immediacy -- >> in the meantime --

>> -- when three young israeli kids are taken and murdered and hamas applauds it, and celebrates the fact that they were kidnapped and supported the kidnapping, and then starts rocketing israel when they're looking for the people who did it, you know, that's out of balance by any standard, george. i think it's important for people to remember the facts that led to this. hamas needs to join up, be part of a solution, not the problem. >> the u.s. and the united nations secretary general have called on israel to do more to stop civilian casualties. what would you like to see from prime minister netanyahu? >> well, prime minister netanyahu has indicated he's not trying to go in and create, you know, some sort of massive countercivilian retakeover. he's trying to make it clear that he's trying to do what he needs to do to protect the citizens of his country. just yesterday when i was

talking -- the day before yesterday, when i was talking to the prime minister in the middle of our conversation, the air raid sirens go off. the prime minister says i have to interrupt the conversation. we have to go to the shelter. 20 minutes later, we can pick up a conversation. the same thing happened with the president of the united states. this is happening to families all across israel. every day. they have to seek shelter. hamas has to understand. you can't just sit there and claim a moral rectitude or the higher ground while you're busy rocketing people, capturing people, digging tunnels to get to attack them. this has to stop. we have indicated our willingness to be a fair mediator, arbitrator, to come in and be able to negotiate the key issues. but you can't reward this terrorism with a bunch of preconditions up front. there has to be a humanitarian or some kind of cease-fire in order to stop the violence. we all want to see that happen. >> i want to move on to the

situation in ukraine. our embassy in kiev has laid out a string of evidence tying the shoot-down to russia. in your view, is russia responsible for these deaths? >> the question of responsibility will be adjudicated in an investigation, provided we can get a full and fair investigation. there are an enormous array of facts that point at russia's support for and involvement in this effort. some of the separatist leaders are russian. russia has armed the separatists. russia had supported the separatists. they've trained the separatists. russia has refused to call for the separatists to engage in behavior that would lend itself to a resolution of the issue. only a few weeks ago, a convoy of 150 vehicles of artillery, armored personnel carriers, multiple rocket launchers,

tanks, crossed over from russia into this area. these items were turned over to the separatists. we, ourselves, tracked the imagery of the launch of this surface-to-air missile. of the disappearance of the aircraft from the radar at the time. we know that this comports with an sa-11 system because it hit an aircraft at the altitude of 33,000 feet. we know, to a fact, that the separatists bragged on the social media immediately afterwards about the shootdown. and later, when one of the leaders of the movement, igor strelkov, the self-proclaimed defense minister of the people's republic of danesk, posted to social media about the takedown of a military transport. when it turned out to be a civilian plane, he removed it. now drunken separatists are stacking bodies in the back of

trucks. removing materials from the site. on friday, we had 75 minutes of access to the site. on saturday, three hours of access. this is an insult to everybody. >> given all that -- >> this is a moment of truth -- it's really a moment of truth for russia to step up and be part of the solution, not the part of the problem. >> so what should president putin do right now? >> president putin should publicly call on the separatists. he should engage in a public support for the cease-fire. he should engage with the separatists directly in order release the hostages they have taken. he should encourage them to take part in a political process that can bring peace to the region. he needs to stop arming them. he could help prevent people crossing the border. he could stop the supplies from coming in. he could engage in the kind of

constructive that russia engaged with us in order to remove 100% of the declared chemical weapons from syria. he could do all those things. all of them. >> there's no indication he's prepared to do that. if he doesn't, what is going to be the united states response? do you believe europe is prepared to go along with greater sanctions? >> we hope so. we hope this is a wakeup call for europe. president obama took the lead and put additional sanctions in place on energy, on arms manufacturing companies, and on banking. those are the toughest sanctions put in place to date. he did it the day before this incident took place. and he is absolutely prepared to consider further. but we need to consult with our allies in europe. and equally importantly, we would like to take a stab at seeing if we can find a way for russia to join in taking actions that actually back up the words that we have been hearing.

>> finally, mr. secretary. you're juggling so many different crises right now. your friend and former colleague senator john mccain has said that the world is in greater turmoil than at any time in his lifetime. he and other critics say the president bears some responsibility for that. he hasn't been forceful enough. do you agree with the analysis? and how do you respond to the criticism? >> i agree with the analysis to the degree that it says that the world is in turmoil. it is. an enormous number of forces have been unleashed. with globalization. with the arab spring. with the radical religious extremism. none of which are the fault of president obama. and there's a nice narrative politically if all you want to do is play politics. the fact is the united states of america, george, is more engaged in more places in the world and frankly, i think, to greater effect, than at any time in recent memory. i can't think of a time when the united states has been engaged in more places where people are worried not about our staying

but they don't want us to leave. and they recognize that american leadership is critical. >> mr. secretary. thank you for your time this morning. >> thank you. up next on this special edition of "this week." israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. and more on the flight 17 investigation and the missile threat to jets worldwide. netanyahu. and more on the flight 17 investigation and the missile threat to jets worldwide. dad: he's our broker. he helps looks after all our money. kid: do you pay him? dad: of course. kid: how much? dad: i don't know exactly. kid: what if you're not happy? does he have to pay you back? dad: nope. kid: why not? dad: it doesn't work that way. kid: why not? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab

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our civilians. they have fired 2,000 rockets at israel's cities. 75% of our population has to be in bomb shelter alert. of 60 seconds or 90 seconds. they're digging these terror tunnels from gaza. from homes in gaza to penetrate and infiltrate israeli territory. they've emerged there and killed israelis and run back or tried to run back into their territory. we have tried to take action. what hamas is doing is embedding its rocketeers, these tunnels, these terror tunnels in homes, in hospitals, in schools. when we take action, as targeted as we can, they then use their civilians as human shields. so hamas is both targeting civilians and they are hiding behind civilians. that is a double war crime. therefore, all civilian deaths -- all civilian deaths, as regrettable as they are, fall on their shoulders. >> as the civilian casualties

climb, are you worried this will be seen by many in the world as an exercise in collective punishment and that the world will turn against israel? >> they'll always look at the last reel of the movie. they won't see that the forces are coming in to try to ferret out the rocketeers. trying to shut the tunnels at their source. and of course, they get hit from the houses there. by hamas and islamic jihad fire. the interesting thing is this. we have asked the civilian population, the people in gaza who are not our enemy. they are hostages of hamas. we have asked them, please leave. we text messages to them. we call them up with cell phones. drop leaflets. hamas says, stay. they want them -- >> israel is hitting from all sides. the north, the east, and the west. where can they go? >> oh, no. they have -- they have paths to leave. that's not an issue. they have plenty of exit points. they know it. hamas is saying, don't use them.

hamas wants to kill civilians on 'tis really side. and the amazing grotesque and gruesome fact is they want to have as many civilians killed on the palestinian side because it gets you to ask me these questions. our goal is not to hurt a single individual, a single civilian. they're doing a double war crime. it should be condemned with the most forceful action. they're like isis, like al qaeda, like hezbollah. and the other iranian proxies. they don't give a whit about the palestinians. all they want is more and more civilian deaths. >> if that's the case, do you have to expand your goals and reoccupy gaza? your economics minister is saying now that you may have to topple the hamas regime. >> i think our goal is to restore a sustainable quiet. i think if we get that, we'll have to use the quiet, to recruit, george, the

international community to demilitarize gaza. gaza -- we handed over gaza to the palestinians. we did what the international community has been telling us. hand over the key to p.a., the palestinian authority. they were booted out by hamas. hamas, with iran at its back, as iran has been financing, equipping, training them, giving them thousands and thousands of rockets, they have turned gaza into a terror fortress. and i think the goal will be, after we achieve a sustainable quiet, to work with the international community to demille tearize gaza from the rockets and shut down the attack tunnels. >> that would mean that hamas would no longer be there. hamas has not accepted a cease-fire. israel accepted a cease-fire proposal earlier in the week. is israel prepared to talk about the other demands?

the release of prisoners? the end of the blockade? the loosening of the border crossings? >> hamas has a large list of demands. if we took that seriously, what would happen is that this terror organization that has criminally bombarded our cities. think about that. somebody bombarding 80% of the american population and it comes out winning. i think this will deal a devastating blow to the palestinian authority. to president abbas. it will be a devastating blow to the region. where other terror groups will see this type of terror behavior is rewarded. i called for a cease-fire right away. i accepted the egyptians cease-fire. backed up by the arab league. i accepted a u.n. cease-fire. hamas rejected that, too. we did a humanitarian cease-fire now. hamas has rejected that, too. hamas doesn't care.

the last thing you want to do is reward them. let's get a sustainable quiet and let's work at demilitarizing gaza. >> the final question. how and when does this end? israel has gone in before. it hasn't solved the problem. this is a serious problem. >> you're right. they were surprised that we developed this iron dome defense system, which is amazing. i'm very grateful for president obama, the u.s. congress, and the american people for helping us fund this missile defense. that is a temporary means. you're right. there is a problem in the middle east. we have this mad islamists. i say the last thing they want to do is have them have missiles, groans, chemical weapons, or in the case of iran, nuclear weapons. that would really change history. >> thank you for your time this morning. >> thank you. >> we invited the palestinian president abbas today. we hope he'll be able to join us soon. much more ahead.

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and we're back now with more on the downing of flight 17 and the threat to passenger jets worldwide with our chief investigator reporter brian ross and with our analyst steve ganyard. they're laying out the string of evidence. tying this indirectly to russia. the ukrainians are saying the crew comprised russian militaries who immediately committed the terrorist act. we can't go that far. >> the u.s. cannot go that far. they've demonstrated, they say,

through intelligence that russian military delivered the sa-11 and tried to sneak it out of the photo after the crash and showing the photos with two missiles apparently missing. they have not identified who pulled the trigger. >> at some level, it doesn't matter. though it would be significant information. this is such a sophisticated missile system it would require russian training. >> it would. you can't pull somebody out of the field, a farmer tending his field, or bring in rebels from russia to say, here, operate this very, very sophisticated missile system. >> we're getting new reports from the rebel leaders that they may have, may have gotten the black box from the airliners. you don't think that will make a difference? >> i don't. i think we're really in a recovery operation right now. the black box will tell us nothing more than this airplane was a perfectly good airplane up to the moment that the missile hit it. we know a missile brought it down. it's not a conventional crash. we need to go on to the intelligence forensics and find out who did it and why. >> so many questions about what

the plane was doing flying over that area in the first place. i want to put up this map right new that shows the faa flight restrictions right now. places where it is prohibited. so much of globe right now. >> absolutely. it's interesting to note that over ukraine, most major european airlines and united airlines were actually flying over that same location in the week before the shootdown. united and other american airlines have stopped flying there. some questions are, if the u.s. knew about the intelligence indicating there were these long-range missiles and ukraine knew about it, why was the air space still open? >> and the answer? >> hard to determine, george. we also had nate -- nato three weeks ago saying we are seeing training by the russians on these sophisticated tact ta ed

things. who determined 33,000 feet was safe? it's confusing. >> these missiles can go far higher. >> they can. the man pads. the shoulder-fired missiles. tens of thousands of them around the world. they keep the intelligence agencies up at night. worried about a civilian shootdown. the sa-11 is a sophisticated, radar-guided, surface-to-air missile system. it goes up as far as any airliner could ever fly. >> we get to the question though -- would the -- it's hard to imagine that anyone would want to deliberately shoot down a civilian aircraft. can't this missile system distinguish between a civilian and a military aircraft? >> the sa-11 can tell if it's a russian airplane or a nonrussian airplane. they saw a blip. locked on to it. said it's not russian. pull the trigger. what we're hearing from the intercepts, this joy, hey, we brought down a military airplane. oh, no, it's a commercial. why would they want the world opinion against them? it was probably a mistake, but

it was a terribly bad one. >> steve brought up the threat of the shoulder-fired missiles that can only go about 10,000 or 12,000 feet. it had been a particular threat to passenger aircraft going on takeoff and landing. now they're held by rebels and different groups in 47 different countries. >> those are people that do want to shoot down special aircraft. that's their goal. they're in large areas. throughout the mideast and africa. it's a serious concern. >> brian ross, steve ganyard, thank you very much. let's get more on this from the chair of the house intelligence committee mike rogers. thank you for joining us. any doubt in your mind that the russians are behind this? >> i think this eliminates putin's plausible deniability. and he's been operating that way in ukraine since the beginning of the conflict and him taking crimea. you know this is so sophisticated, you're not even going to hand this weapons

system off without having trainers present, maintenance personnel. they're sophisticated, delicate, and highly lethal. the evidence is mounting that this had russian hands, at least at some point, that led to the massacre of those individuals on the airplane. >> what does the united states do right now? and the world? if putin doesn't have plausible deniability. >> well, i'm hoping this is an opportunity to get the european allies really engaged. phone calls with putin, that's all wonderful. this is as serious as it gets. they just massacred 290-some civilians. it's time to end putin's gamesmanship in ukraine. it means the united states needs to end its tepid response. logistics, training opportunities. we need the european allies to step up its opportunity to put really tough sanctions. if you're going to get his attention, you have to increase

these sanctions. >> you call the united states response tepid. president obama was out in front of this wednesday before the aircraft went down. >> yeah, but here's the problem. for months now, the ukrainians have been saying, we need help. logistics, food, the ability to move fuel and other things. ammunition, of which has not been coming. the only thing the united states did was they said, we're going give you these mres, meals ready to eat. that is not enough. if we wanted to be aggressive to try to push back and take control so you don't have rebels playing around with sophisticated, very lethal missile systems, you need to be aggressive in our help for the ukrainian military. not boots on the ground. but training. intelligence. logistics, food, other things that could be helpful. and at the same time, we need to continue to ramp up sanctions. it worries me that the president has not rallied the europeans to

his -- at least to his level of sanctions that he applied earlier this week. he needs to engage in that relationship and start pushing a little bit so we don't have another incident. >> we have heard from the british and dutch prime ministers that they're prepared to do that this morning. how about the broader threat of missiles? how worried should air passengers be? >> well, obviously, this is something that keeps the intelligence community up at night. if you look at man pads, the shoulder-fired, that is through intelligence, aggressive intelligence, good posturing, working with liaison partners intelligence services from around the world, you can at least suppress their ability to get in position to fire one. when you're at 32,000 feet, these are ineffective. when you look across northern africa, the concerns there. libya, and its proliferation of weapons. in the region. other places. egypt. it's starting to get concerning that we don't have a good handle on all of those weapons systems. we have programs to go after the

weapons systems, they're called man pads. find them, destroy them, take them into custody. you're never going to be 100% in that effort. that's the concern. that's why aggressive intelligence operations around the world are so critically important. >> chairman rogers thank you so much for your time this morning. so many hot spots all over the globe. and are the crises facing the president similar to those that sparked world war i? our experts break it all down on this special edition of "this week."

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and try bounty napkins. we live in a complex world. and at a challenging time. none of these challenges lend themselves to quick or easy solutions. but all of them require american leadership. and as commander in chief, i'm confident that if we stay patient and determined that we will in fact meet these challenges. there's president obama speaking out. on dealing with all of the challenges and the hot spots around the world.

that was on wednesday before the shooting down of flight 17. and the dramatic escalation of the ground war in gaza. our experts are here to put the crises in context after this from chief white house correspondent jonathan karl. >> breaking news. a malaysian airlines flight has crashed, we're told. >> the ground phase of the war in gaza has, indeed, begun. >> reporter: it looked a little like the week the world came undone. just think. those two huge stories, israeli incursion into gaza. a passenger jet brought down by a russian-made missile came after the front page story in "the wall street journal" saying a raft of foreign policy crises have brought global instability not seen since 1979. that was the year islamic revolutionaries overtook the shah of iran and took americans hostage. the chinese invaded north vietnam. >> this is an abc news special. >> reporter: the united states seemed unable to do anything

about any of it. >> or foreign failure? >> reporter: looking around the world today, a former cia director went further. saying 2014 looks a lot like 1914. the year the assassination of an archduke in sarajevo touched off the war to end all wars. >> it's very difficult, for the u.s. government, at that level, to tale with more than two, three, four crises at a time. the problem if you look around the world now, there are fires burning everywhere. >> reporter: fires burning not just in russia, ukraine, israel, and gaza. but in the south china sea. and in afghanistan and pakistan, where weak governments are battling taliban insurgencies with less help from the u.s. and perhaps most alarmingly in syria and iraq, where a terrorist group linked to al qaeda has taken control of major cities. it's the flow of western jihadists into syria that brought the stark warning we heard here last sunday from

attorney general eric holder. >> in some ways, it's more frightening than anything i think i have seen as attorney general. >> reporter: it was five years ago that president obama, after less than a year in office, received the nobel peace prize. he envisioned a different kind of world. >> for if we want a lasting peace, then the words of the international community must mean something. >> reporter: today, the words of the international community don't seem to mean all that much. and lasting peace is as elusive as ever. for "this week." jonathan karl, abc news, the white house. >> let's dig in. our chief global affairs correspondent martha raddatz. carol lee who wrote that piece from "the wall street journal." and richard haass and julia ioffe. welcome to you all. martha, you have been living this first hand. ping-ponging in all these crises spots. >> i was in iraq.

then israel. i returned to the shootdown of the malaysian airliner. this is an astonishingly bad time for the world. i mean, we can't say enough. you heard jonathan say that. places on the the map that airplane can't fly. you have an administration trying to deal with them all. i think one of the things you have to do is go back and look to see where they were focused over these past few years. john kerry was focused on israel and look at it today. >> look at it today. >> we herd the former chief say it's difficult to deal with two, three, four crises at the same time. are secretary kerry and john mccain correct when they say the world is in greater turmoil than any time before? >> any time is a big phrase. the bottom line is, it's in enormous turmoil. very different kinds. the asia-pacific is similar to europe 100 years ago where medium and grade-sized powers are jockeying.

real friction that could lead to incidents or conflicts. in the middle east, it's just the opposite. we have weak states. states that can't control what is going on inside their own borders. the parallel to 100 years ago is that the post world war i settlement in the middle east is unraveling. the border between syria and iraq is irrelevant. so we have very different kinds of crises. not to mention ukraine, where you have russia trying to restore a certain position on the periphery of europe. the administrations don't have the luxury of narrow casting. they have to deal with all of these things. >> one of the things we heard from secretary kerry, carol lee, is that in all of these places, people are clamoring for more united states involvement. some of the critics of the president say he's not doing enough. >> that's the tension you see the president having to deal with. one of the things happening is all the issue are blowing up at the same time. and the president is looking to pull back on u.s. military presence in particular.

and so that is, by -- his krcr c critics would say, fueling some of this. and, the president would argue he's doing what the american public wants to be done. but either way, it's having this effect where, he -- the u.s. winds up looking a little bit feckless on the world stage. >> i was struck by a piece you wrote this week, where you said it was somewhat egotistical for us to focus on how great the turmoil is in the world right now. we have to put it in context. >> that's right. i talked to a bunch of historians. every generation has this moment that they believe that they're the ones able to identify a moment of great change and turmoil that is unique and different and worse than all other moments of turmoil and change that came before. just look at what happened in 2001. the second intifada. isisrael-palestine. the september 11th attacks. the invasion of afghanistan. that was a pretty bad year, too. we're still alive, still here, still kicking. >> you have all these safe havens.

that is a real fear and a real difference. look at yemen. look at pakistan. look at what afghanistan could become. look at iraq. the safe havens there for terrorists are unbelievable. you have to look at the united states. it's a very unique time. >> some of the things going on are structural. the rise of powers. the breakdowns of states. some of the things we have had a lot to do with. we have gone from the previous administration that tried to do too much. i think iraq is an example of that. we weakened state authority. and now we have a failed state in iraq. to an administration that is arguably trying to do too little. we see that in syria. we see that if putting calendars on how long we're going to stay in places, such as afghanistan, which is potentially then a crisis to come. we can say this is a turbulent world. to some extent, we are responsible, because we are still, by far, the most consequential and powerful country in the world. >> richard brings up a good point, carol lee.

the white house would say president obama was brought in to office to end the wars in afghanistan and iraq. and there's though -- no way we're going back in. >> except we're potentially back in. the president wants to set a proactive foreign policy agenda, but he's forced to react to these things. ukraine was not on the agenda. russia was on the agenda in an entirely different way. he wants to get out of afghanistan. he wanted to get out of iraq. and now we're back in there in a way he didn't expect or desire to do. i think you're seeing him trying to run a foreign policy agenda in a way that is proactive and constantly getting forced to be reactive. and raising questions among our allies on whether the united states will be there if they come in conflict. some of that, the president has exacerbated on his own. his decision to step back was much more impactful than the

white house realized at the time and is still having reverberations. >> you brought up secretary of state kerry's efforts to broker a middle east peace have failed. i thing it's going too far for critics to say it's caused what's going on right now. but it certainly came to nothing. what we're seeing now, you have covered these intifadas in the past. this one does seem to be different, particularly on the israeli side. >> it sure does. i'll tell you what is different. i covered the intifada in 1988. the palestinians were throwing stones. the israelis had rubber bullets. today, when i go back, and over the years, i have kept in touch with a lot of people i talked to then. today, we have long-range rockets that hamas has. and the israelis going in with fighter jets and artillery and missiles from ships. anything they can do. but the people, when i talk to the people, the same people who were so idealistic in 1988, we can all live together.

today, they cannot stand each other. they never see each other. there's a wall between the west bank and israel. we are losing the moderates on both sides. we're losing palestinian moderates. we're losing israeli moderates. everyone is begging for leadership. >> we can't even broker a cease-fire. >> we can't. that's part of the problem with the israeli policy right now. which is israel will succeed in weakening hamas, and then what? toward what end? if you only weaken them, it's simply matter of months and years before they rearm. you have to try to destroy it, which is impossible. you tray to coopt it, it has not worked. or you try to marginalize it. the only way to do that is with a serious diplomatic initiative to the moderates in the west bank. you try to separate hamas from the people of gaza, who are right now paying an enormous price for hamas' radicalism.

israel cannot have only a military strategy. they need a political or diplomatic complement. you spent time on the ground in may in the ukraine. it certainly does seem right now that president putin has unleashed a battle that he schi simply can't control anymore. >> i have been saying it for years. vladimir putin, for all the praise he gets in some corners of washington. he's brilliant and outma moverering the u.s. at every turn. he's a good tactician but a terrible strategist. he stoked the fire in eastern ukraine. it got out ahead of him. i don't think in his wildest dreams did he intend -- i don't think he every intended to down a civilian jet. he can't have. and the netherlands are a major trading partner with russia. now the netherlands are furious at him. they're calling the behavior of the rebels disgusting. he's alienated a lot of people with this. >> does putin take the

opportunity now to deescalate? if he was, indeed, losing the battle, is this an opening for him? >> it should be an opening for us. on one hand, we create the narrative on what happened with the crash. we press the europeans to put more pressure. there has to be quietly put forward to putin an offramp. basically, a way to deescalate. that should be the priority of the white house. it's not enough for the senior officials to come out and excoriate putin. privately, quietly, we have to send out a lifeline and say, under certain terms, it's in your interests and our interests to deescalate. let's see if we can come up with those terms. >> president obama has been on the phone with president putin twice in the last few days. >> they're looking for a -- privately looking for a way to deescalate this. i think the one thing the white house hopes is that this does wind up being a game-changing event. and that nothing they have done so far has had any substantial impact on the crisis. that now, you have seen the president try to pressure the europeans and putin. those things are taking care of themselves at the moment.

you'll see the president try to guide this into the conclusion that he wants, which is ultimately a deescalation. >> up until now, president putin blaming the ukrainians. >> still blaming the ukrainians and probably doing that for a long time. not sure he'll ever take the blame for that. in the end, we have to know it was mistakenly shot down. >> thank you all very much. a great discussion. up next, a look back at the giant leap for mankind on this day in 1969.

it's very pretty out here. >> 45 years ago tonight, everyone looked to the skies to see a magnificent sight, man's first walk on the moon. a feat inspired by the cold war. and now, so many questions about america's place in space and our relationship with russia are giving new ideas for exploring the final frontier. here's clayton sandell.

>> the eagle has landed. >> reporter: 45 years ago today, the future arrived. >> that's one small step for man. one giant leap for mankind. >> reporter: millions watched neil armstrong and buzz aldrin go where no one had gone before. it was the height of the cold war. the u.s. had now won the space race against the soviets. secures its place as the leader in cosmic exploration. >> touchdown confirmed. [ cheers ] >> reporter: from the mars rovers, the hubble telescope, and the international space station. but then -- >> the space shuttle pulls into port for the last time. >> reporter: three years ago, the shuttles were retired. sent to museums. u.s. astronauts lost their own ride to space. forced to buy seats on russian rockets. and before malaysia 17 was shot down, new tensions were rising between the u.s. and russia over ukraine. the deputy prime minister threatened this spring. if america wants astronauts in space, it should get a trampoline.

that does not sit well with former nasa administrator michael griffin. >> we're in a hostage situation. russia can decide that no more u.s. astronauts will launch to the international space station. that's not a position i want our nation to be in. >> reporter: but now, there's a new space race. three private companies competing for billions in nasa dollars to build a brand-new ride for american astronauts. >> so this is the cst-100- >> reporter: chris ferguson commanded the last shuttle flight. he's helping boeing sell this design that can seat seven. >> we're waiting for the government go-ahead. to start building. >> reporter: space-x has the dragon. the first commercial ship to deliver supplies to the international space station. and then there's dream chaser. sierra nevada's smaller, sportier version of the space shuttle. former astronaut steve lindsey

took us aboard. tight squeeze. >> it is. >> reporter: nasa wants the wing launch to happen in 2017. many want us to go beyond. buzz aldrin wants us to go back to the moon. then on to mars. >> we don't have to repeat what we did 45 years ago. but we don't ignore the moon. it's very important for technology, commerce, science. >> reporter: that next giant leap perhaps to an asteroid or mars, will be costly. but explorers like katherine coleman inspired by apollo 11 say, it's well worth it. >> humanity's first footsteps on the moon taught us what we can accomplish for all mankind when we focus on a common goal. it's time for our next giant leap. we're meant to explore our universe. >> reporter: for "this week" clayton sandell, abc news, denver. and we end with good news. for the third week in a row, the pentagon reported no deaths of service members in afghanistan. that is all for today.

thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. check out "world news" with david muir tonight. i'll see you tomorrow on "gma."